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TOPIC: Training Frequency

Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31091

  • GPC26
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Hey all, first time poster here. I've been training religiously since i was 18, i am 28 now. Over the years i have always followed a split routine hitting only each body part once a week. Every now and then i would switch off to a Layne Norton type split which he made popular, a combination of power/hypotrophy. Currently i switched to a push/pull/legs routine where I am hitting each body part twice a week. My question is, as a natural bodybuilder, what do you guys believe is a better routine... hitting each body part twice a week or only once a week? There are so many conflicting articles out there in terms of how a natural bodybuilder can recover, some for and against the twice a week split. Thoughts anyone?

p.s. I am hoping to compete for the first time within a year from now, so i will be on this site a lot.
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31092

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Hello GPC26 and welcome to the board.
Great question!

At your age (28) your body is still producing relatively high levels of gh and testosterone. Therefore, unlike us older guys (I'm 51), your body can recover more quickly allowing you to workout more frequently.

Workout programs should always be goal specific, based on your current age and goal,,, I would definitely be hitting each muscle group twice a week.

Thanks for joining!

Lift
Lift for Life - Natural Bodybuilding at it's Finest!
www.liftforlife.com
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31104

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good morning, GPC26 ...

I have an article on this site, that rotates nine different workouts, three for each body part...

essentially, it's back/biceps, chest/triceps, legs/shoulders...

what I do with it...

I start with day one and that's workout one... I train every day that I can make it to the gym, taking days off that have scheduling conflicts and calling them rest days... the only time I take an additional day off is when everything is already sore... like Lift, I"m not 28 any longer... so I actually get four workouts a week in if it's a good week... if it's a GREAT week, I get five... I make it thru that nine workout rotation in about two or two and a half weeks, and then I add weight and start over...

as far as frequency per week, totally depends on goals... I think My legs are falling behind, so every time My legs are NOT sore, I squat... given that I bench as much as I squat right now, I don't think chest is the issue... so I'm squatting extra... I'll get two this week, and MAYBE three next week in the squat rack...

random thoughts, hope they help...

have a great day,
Stats:

Chest: 55.5 Squat: 475
Waist: 43.5 Bench: 455
Biceps: 19.25 Dead : 495
Quads: 29.5
Weight: 318 down to 274
"Let men see, let them know, a real man, who lives as he was meant to live... "

-- Marcus Aurelius

""The sense of superiority in bodily strength is borne out by the long history of mankind paying homage in folklore, song and poetry to strong men"
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31112

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Thank you for your replies, I appreciate it. For the moment, since I am still making gains, I will stay with the push/pull/legs 2x a week split for awhile longer.

SquatMax, what is the title of the article, I would love to check it out and give it a read.

Since I am on a cut and hovering around 2500 cals a day (50p/40c/10f macro breakdown), I plan on keeping the weight heavy in the gym as to help prevent muscle loss. I am 6'1 and about 211, probably about 9 - 10% body fat. I want to drop to about 204 and see how I look.
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31115

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Pasted below is a link to the article that Coach Bear referred to.

Dynamic Strength Training

Lift
Lift for Life - Natural Bodybuilding at it's Finest!
www.liftforlife.com
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31126

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If your recovering from one workout to the next relatively fast, say every 2 days, then hitting it twice weekly is fine. Someone can't tell you whats best, for this is dictated by your body... As Lift said the older you get the longer these recovery period will be. I actually work on an 8 day rotation. Hitting my whole body once every 8 days.
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 11 months ago #31127

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bharrop wrote:
If your recovering from one workout to the next relatively fast, say every 2 days, then hitting it twice weekly is fine. Someone can't tell you whats best, for this is dictated by your body... As Lift said the older you get the longer these recovery period will be. I actually work on an 8 day rotation. Hitting my whole body once every 8 days.

True, the body is not a textbook. Where in NJ are you from?? I am from the Cherry Hill area. Looking for local people with competition experience so I can pick their brain on prepping for my first show. Thinking of doing it sometime in the fall maybe.
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31165

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Jersey, Me too!

I would say Central Northern NJ, as for the natural body and how it really works, one of the big things that so many try and do is overtrain the body and work it too much too often and then there is no time for recovery and growth, the body needs rest and demands it, so don't get crazy with hitting the whole body twice a week and everything doesn't have to fit into a 7 day week, wherever you left off or however long the entire cycle takes to hit it the way you want to, then begin the cycle over again.

I love interchanging between
a power week(heavy week) 3X per week
a negatives, slow postitives, and drops week, with 100's (light week) 4X per week
a Hypertrophy/Volume week (Medium Week) 6 x per week

All bodyparts are hit once per week in this fashion and arms aren't even done in the power week!

Day 1= Heavy Legs/Calves
Day 2= OFF
Day 3= Heavy Chest
Day 4= OFF
Day 5= Heavy Back/Shoulders
Day 6= OFF
Day 7= am Negative Legs(Hams, Quads, calves)
pm 100 reps Shoulders/Traps
Day 8= am Slow Positives Chest/tris
pm 100 reps Legs/Calves
Day 9= OFF
Day 10= am Step Bombs Back/bis
pm 100 reps Chest/Tris
Day 11= am Negative Shoulders/traps
pm 100 reps Back/Bis
Day 12= OFF
Day 13= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Hamstrings/Calves) 4x6-10, 4 cycle triset-10-15 reps
Day 14= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Chest) 4x6-10, 4 cycle triset-10-15 reps
Day 15= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Back) 4X6-10, 4 cycle triset-10-15 reps
Day 16= OFF
Day 17= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Shoulders/Traps) 4x6-10, 4 cycle triset-10-15 reps
Day 18= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Quads/Calves) 4x6-10, 4 Cycle Triset-10-15 reps
Day 19= Hypertrophy/Volume Combination (Arms) bis 4x6-10 and Tris 4x6-10, then 4 cycle trisets with Bis and tris or 2 supersets of each bodypart

Variety is key to any workout along with what you put into each one, thats where intensity needs to stay high, but remember progression is built up over time and the body can recover with different styles used to let joints recover without constant pressure but in different ways through heavy workouts, or time under tension, or even hitting the endurance side type IIa fibers with supersets trisets and giant sets!

Let me know what you think? I hope this helpps you out.
Craig Yarnall, CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro
"Want a Bigger BODY, shut up and SQUAT, DEEP!!!!"
"Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder"
"Train Hard and Stay Natural"
"Dr. Joe, Jr."
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31173

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Craig,

Great post!! Thanks a lot for the info , I will have to give that a shot.I am currently doing the below split. It's been about 5 weeks or so, I will be making plans to change it soon. I would really like to touch base with you to pick your brain. I attended my first natural bodybuilding show this past weekend... let's just say I got the bug to do it. I will send you a private message so I won't clog up the thread. Feel free to give me all your thoughts on the below workout:

Push/Pull/Legs Split

*OFF DAYS TAKEN WHEN NEEDED*

Chest/Shoulders/Triceps #1
1. Smith Machine Shoulder Press (6 sets)
2. Low Incline DB Bench Press (5 sets)
3. Weighted Dips (5 sets)
4. Overhead Machine Extensions (4 sets)
4. Side Delt DB or Machine Raises (4 sets)
5. V-Bar Cable Pressdowns (3 sets)
5. Machine Chest Flys (3 sets)

Back/Bicep/Traps #1
1. Weighted Chinups (5 sets)
2. T-Bar Rows (5 sets)
3. Wide Hammer Grip Lat Pulldowns (4 sets)
3. Shrugs (4 sets)
4. DB Curls (3 sets)
4. Lying Rear Delt DB Raises (3 sets)
5. HS Preacher Curl (3 sets)
5. High Cable Lat Iso's (3 sets)

Quads/Hamstrings/Calves
1. Squats (8 sets)
2. Leg Press (6 sets)
3. Walking Lunges (3 sets)
3. Calf Raises (3 sets)
4. Leg Extensions (3 sets)
4. Seated Leg Curls (3 sets)

Chest/Shoulders/Triceps #2
1. HS Incline Press (6 sets)
2. High Incline DB Bench Press (5 sets)
3. Machine Dips (5 sets)
4. Overhead DB Extensions (4 sets)
4. Side Delt DB or Cable Raises (4 sets)
5. Rope Cable Pressdowns (3 sets)
5. Machine Chest Flys (3 sets)

Back/Biceps/Traps #2
1. 1 Arm DB Rows (5 sets)
2. Close Hammer Grip Lat Pulldown (5 sets)
3. Seated Wide Hammer Grip Cable Row (4 sets)
3. Shrugs (4 sets)
4. HS Preacher Curl (3 sets)
4. Lying Rear Delt DB Raises (3 sets)
5. Low Cable Curls (3 sets)
5. High Cable Lat Iso's (3 sets)

Quads/Hamstrings/Calves
1. Squats (8 sets)
2. Leg Press (6 sets)
3. Walking Lunges (3 sets)
3. Calf Raises (3 sets)
4. Leg Extensions (3 sets)
4. Seated Leg Curls (3 sets)

REPEAT
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31181

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Also, what do you think of this power/hypertrophy split? Of course it can be tweaked, such as off days being switched and/or doing less sets for hypertrophy days since it does look like a lot:

Sunday: Upper Power
-5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
-Barbell Bench Press
-Barbell Rows
-Military Press
-Barbell Shrugs

Monday: Lower Power
-5x5 or 3x5 for all lifts(5x5 on bulk cause recovery is better, 3x5 on cut)
-Back Squat
-Stiff Leg Deadlift, Or Romanian DL
-6-8 sets of Standing Calf, little higher reps, i like to do 6-8 on heavy days


Tues: Off (cardio)


Wednesday: Hypertrophy Chest/Arms


-DB Incline Bech 3x8-12
-Barbell Close Grip Bench 3x8-12
-DB Flat Bench 2x8-12
-Preacher Curls 3x8-12 super setted with
-Standing French Press 3x8-12
-Push Downs 3x8-12 super setted with
-DB Hammer Curls
-Cable Crossovers 3x8-12
-Machine Curl 3x8-12 supersetted with
-Machine Dips 3x8-12

Thursday: Hypertrophy Shoulders/Back/Traps

-DB Shoulder Press 3x8-12 super setted with
-DB Front Raise 3x8-12
-DB One Arm Row 3x8-12 super setted with
-DB Arnold Press 3x8-12
-Lat Pull Down (Wide Grip) 2x8-12 super setted with
-DB Shrugs 2x10-15
-Lat Pull Down (Close grip, palms facing in) 2x8-12 super setted with
-DB Upright Row 2x10-15
-T-bar row 2x8-12 (Usually too tired/dead to do this last exercise, but some times i do it)

Friday: Hypertrophy Legs/Calves

-Hack Squat 5x8-12 super setted with
-Standing Calf 5x10-15
-Leg Extensions 5x10-15 super setted with
-Sitting Leg Curls 5x10-15 super setted with
-Sitting Calf Raise 4x8-12


Saturday: Off (cardio )
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31182

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Eventually that will take its toll on most natural bodies, there is a time and place for that but not for long drawn out periods of time, it's a lot of exercises for just about anyone.

Just like that office max commercial, "WOW THAT'S A GREAT PRICE", wow, that's a lot of volume!

Even the best Russian Powerlifters will bench 3-5 times per week for 3 weeks and then kind of reload and back off before hitting the heavier stuff once again, so build those in as well to aloow for the body to stay injury free.
Craig Yarnall, CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro
"Want a Bigger BODY, shut up and SQUAT, DEEP!!!!"
"Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder"
"Train Hard and Stay Natural"
"Dr. Joe, Jr."
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31183

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good afternoon,

if I'm your trainer... I'm cutting your total number of sets, and asking you how many reps per set... as above, professional Soviet powerlifters on the juice performed a maximum of 144 reps of bench on bench days... and that was over probably a two hour period...

then I'm taking that seven day routine, I'm adding two actual days OFF with nothing on the schedule, and I'm stretching it to about a week and a half...

but that's Me, and I defer to the bodybuilding experts for any further comments...

have a great day,
Stats:

Chest: 55.5 Squat: 475
Waist: 43.5 Bench: 455
Biceps: 19.25 Dead : 495
Quads: 29.5
Weight: 318 down to 274
"Let men see, let them know, a real man, who lives as he was meant to live... "

-- Marcus Aurelius

""The sense of superiority in bodily strength is borne out by the long history of mankind paying homage in folklore, song and poetry to strong men"
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31185

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As my 6 day wrkout this week says I have started with my Hamstrings yesterday and today was chest!

Hammies went like this
SLDL's for 4 sets of 6-10 reps
tough compound move for the hammies and glutes

then I did a 4 exercise giant set for 15 reps each in that range and near failing each time i was reaching 15 reps and yes it was probably lighter than what I might do if I wasn't giant setting this stuff!

1-lunges
2-step ups onto bench
3-seated leg curls
4-single leg press

3 cycles through and i was drneched and done for!

today was chest
Incline BB bench press for 4 sets of 6-10 reps

then I did a superset, really a compound set of
flat DB presses for 20 reps SS w/Cable crossovers of 20 reps as well for 4 sets

then I did the FST-7 on the BB bench for 7 sets of 10 reps with 30 sec rest and go til I was done with 7 sets of 10 reps, with a weight you can usually rep out 15-20 reps for as you will see how hard t gets at the end!

Tomorrow will be back in some sort of style similar to this!
Craig Yarnall, CSCS, CPT, WNBF Pro
"Want a Bigger BODY, shut up and SQUAT, DEEP!!!!"
"Lifetime Natural Bodybuilder"
"Train Hard and Stay Natural"
"Dr. Joe, Jr."
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31188

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Thank you, Coach Bear and Craig, for your thoughts. I think I am going to still stick with a similar push/pull/legs split but switch it up to have one week power (5 sets of 5) and concentrate on the foundation compound movement. Then, the next week I will focus on hypertrophy and play around with high reps, drop sets, negative, giant sets, etc. The first power week will be 70% of my one rep max for all lifts, then as the weeks go on I will bump it up to 80%, 90% , max out, then back down again. This way I will be adding strength and triggering growth. I will also be carb cycling to cut... 4 low days and 1 carb up day and keeping track of calories on fitday.com as i have been.

here is an example of what i ate today: http://fitday.com/fitness/PublicJournals.html?_a_User=gpc26

(go to May 18th if you view that link after today)
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RE:Training Frequency 3 years 10 months ago #31198

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Bump for thoughts?
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